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19 Comments
38:23 I don't really think the underlying issue with Pyro for PvE players will be, how Pyro will end up being in/for the completed game. As a mostly PvP risk/reward system. It's that Pyto is a new system, and everyone just wants to be able to see and explore it
Take it all in as the new hotness for a few moments. We've all only had Stanton for the longest time. The issue is, since there is no rep to speak of, there really is zero protection there for PKing ATM. You don't lose rep with any other gangs, no NPC bounters automatically start chasing you around, etc. It's just that the place is new and PvEers will hardly even be able to see it. In the end, when there are more planetary systems and reeputation is in working order. PvEers may be able to stay out of these PvP systems altogether if they don't want to get whatever better items/materials/etc. are there, themselves. They'll have a couple of other low/high sec systems out that will also be newer to enjoy.
I will believe they have turned over a new leaf when I can go more than an hour or 2 on USA or EU without a 30k. They seem to be getting worse as the game is getting better. Great show guys!
Might not be a popular opinion, but I actually do NOT like Croncy on the show. He's fine, but not as an every episode thing. I watch the show to hear YOUR content. If I want his opinion, I can sub to him. Just wanted to get another opinion in the mix.
38:47 On the topic of "pvp in Pyro", people tend to stupify it down to "pvp: yey or ney", but I think the better question is; "what is good pvp", and does that look like "murderhobos jumping each other like rust" or does it look like something else for star citizen? Thing is, even within pvp, there can be a good and bad implementation of it. Is Pyro good as is?
Also, food for thought; does real "criminal/outlaw" places in history feature 99 % chance of anybody who sees each other also killing each other? If not, why does criminals there not immediately kill each other? Does a lawless place in real life make everyone murderhobos?
Personally I'd like to see a different pvp culture, for instance; in Pyro you belong to gangs, and when you see another player, you'll have a fair % chance that they are from your gang, and therefore you will not kill each other but rather team up, because killing a member of your gang will insta-kick you out of it (or heavily penalize you to reimburse the killed player), and with potential for long-term consequence of being "gangless".
And being "gangless" should be extremely dangerous in pyro, and let's say you will be attacked on sight in any major station or outpost, as you're a "rogue" murderhobo. Even basic resources cannot be purchased for you, instead you rely on stealing and stocking up on basic resources, and making a ship or an outpost your base.
These gangs would not be player orgs, because it's important for anti-murderhobo-ism that there aren't too many gangs, otherwise the percentage of hostile players will probably skyrocket
It should be immediately clear to players what gang another player is part of, or if they're gangless (e.g. a red color in their name). This way, most players who belong to gangs can expect less murderhobo-ism, and maybe a 10-30 % chance of meeting friendly players that will not just stab you in the back like crazed hobos
Now instead of everyone being a murderhobo, you have a few people that actually want to be murderhobos, and for them pyro will be much much more difficult, and therefore also more challenging and rewarding to pull off. For most players though, you'll be a gang member and you'll not fight with players from your own gang.
Fighting other gangs should have some consequence as well; if you do it a lot, those gangs will begin targeting you. And when a fight begins, gangs might sometimes come to the aid of their member
We could even expand incentivice the murderhobos by saying that belonging to a gang requires to forfeit a cut of all profit to the gang's bank, so being gangless is more profitable if you can survive.
Players will begin to feel personally attached to their gangs, and I imagine a culture of banter between different gangs will be a healthy thing for the community immersion over-all.
@24:50 Correction: people were complaining about people behaving like unruly, disruptive children in a limited-time environment.
With Science's idea of a symmetrical game play, I believe that the master modes will help out. Basically, when someone switches to fight mode they will be slower than a hauler that is travelling at max speed and preparing to quant out, or using short quant bursts to run in a random direction.
Even with interdiction, hopefully the ship that interdict should be flying around SCM 1:28:50
28:27
Totally disagree with that unless you somehow set up a place where the lunatics have actually taken over the asylum.
Running this through just basic logic, no station would exist if every member of that society just shot everyone they saw. If nothing else.. people would stop bringing them bullets.. but long before that… everyone would just starve to death.
I'd suggest you read "Anarchy, State & Utopia" to see how this works out in reality.
So that makes your argument one of "This isn't reality, it is just a game".
The argument falls apart there as well in that CIG has designed a social structure. To then abandon that social structure yanks the rug out from under the story line and then just makes everything they create irrelevant window dressing. Do that and this game fails to even be a game.
So that brings us back to the fact that even psychopathic serial killers and sociopath manipulative murders… don't $#!+ where they sleep.
If they do, if you have an individual that just shoots everyone they see… either gets their clock cleaned or they simply find life so difficult that they die of an abscess from an infected tooth because absolutely no one will assist them.
So for game play, I see this playing out just as Mike suggested. That the gang in control of the station will eventually send a Lt. up there with a contingent of men to take you out and it will be that camping murder hobo that has to find somewhere else that will accept them.
Don't get me wrong here… I'm all for PVP. That's one of the biggest draws for Pyro. But you do have to be realistic that you ARE in a social structure.. as violent as it is.
If feel like the "It's a video game, they don't need to do that" is a major problem in the industry. Not only does it lead to people having delusional concepts about certain things, but it also feels like a cop out so lazy people can have fun. I don't want things to be simplified because you aren't good or smart enough to comprehend them. "I shouldn't have to learn this or that for a video game" Well you don't have to be as good as those who actually spend the time to learn such things either, they are better and show more dedication than you. By not spending the time to do such things you should be worse and struggle.
I dub ATC as the sweet & salty podcast. LOL
Mike is the realist, salty vet side and Croncy is the sweet, glass-half-full side.
You two make a great pair and a balanced podcast.♥
The pure unfiltered 'tism-brain of "Why are there lights on the dashboard that aren't attached to gameplay functions?!" 🤣
Thanks for the visual support on some of the sections! That‘s what I‘ve always wanted! Sometimes I want some more eye candy with your discussion topics
The Patch City Hab Wars were amazing. Just get good.
Yeah Patch City… I like PVP, but i like good PVP but i dislike bad pvp.
PVP for testing your skills, pvp for getting something like cargo or an armor or a gun, ok PVP because you ask for paymaent to pass in a zone ok. Thats is all good PVP.
Bad PVP, your first logged in your server, you camp armed with a tank armor and a lots of amunition and you kill ppl at the second they come out of their room in a hab. and then for sure you respawn at that hab but in underwear.. at least when i played we were not spawning back at an hospital we were respawning in our hab after being killed… so one in underwear what are you supposed to do to defend ourself???
I think we could benefits of a mechanic where we can remove our underwear and stangle the enemy dicretely with them…
Do you know if the servers are good for mining yet also how goes the Conny Taurus for the tractor beam?
1:44 You're missing the point of having access to the development build during development.
It's not a game, yet. If you want to play it like it's a finished game, you deserve all the unfinished, not working stuff you get.
I don't care about the alpha build or whether it's playable or if features are working.
What I DO care about is the ACTUAL, yet to be released game.
Keeping the demo working drains resources, adds complexity ADDS TIME until we see the ACTUAL game.
Access to the demo or development build was never meant to give players a functioning game go play while the game is…wait for it…being built.
If the pu is buggy or things aren't working right, or performance is bad, do what you're SUPPOSED to do with it: take a peek, see what's going on and then stop trying play the dev build if it isn't sufficiently playable.
I suspect that your position as a SC content creator is clouding your judgement as to whether a working dev build or quicker time to the actual game is more valuable.
I know I've said this before, but Croncy's been a great addition to the format. Especially when the both of you have completely different levels of salt/sugar. It's nice to get things from both perspectives rolled into one video, even to the point where I would like a bit more discussion, but hey, it's a call-in show and there's only so much time.
its still a scam what a sad state
What has changed? What's the big deal? Oh it's the first time CIG gave a deadline for something and actually kept it! Amazing… All the sudden they are best company in the world for actually doing what they said for once haha. Imagine if life worked like this for everyone. You could be late for work never on time never meet a deadline. But one week you do and all the sudden you are seen as the most trustworthy reliable person in existence. Haha
PVE vs PVP discussion as always. I have a simple solution, works for both sides: Come prepared!
For the PVE side: Can't or won't protect yourself, hire protection, simple.